June 12, 2024

#37: Raising Kids with Autism/ADHD and How to Parent with Purpose with Susanna Peace Lovell

In this episode, we dive into the world of parenting children with autism and ADHD and the essential mindset shifts parents need to make. I chatted with Susanna Peace Lovell's about her new book, "Your True Self is Enough," and how it can inspire and guide parents on this journey. You'll learn about the process of getting a diagnosis for your child and discover ways to thrive as a family, even if professional help isn't within reach. Join us as we share personal stories, practical tips, and heartfelt advice to help you navigate this unique parenting path with confidence and love. This episode is all about empowering you to embrace your child's true self and find joy in the journey.

About this episode

What you'll learn

  • Signs that your child might be on the spectrum
  • How to navigate getting a diagnosis for your child
  • The a-ha moment that transformed Susanna's relationship with her daughter
  • Tips for improving your relationship with children on the spectrum
  • What to do if you can't afford professional help for your child

About Susanna

Susanna Peace Lovell is an Advocate for Disability Families, Speaker, Autism Expert, Author, Certified Professional Life Coach, and Reiki Practitioner. Susanna received her B.A. from UC Berkeley, and is a certified professional life coach and advocate dedicated to the health and wellness of special needs families everywhere. Her own daughter Arizona has multiple challenges and diagnoses including autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, anxiety, and myriad food allergies. 

On her journey of navigating through the worry and heartbreak of raising a special needs child Susanna found her true life calling: to help other parents find and realize joy and passion in their own lives. She provides one-on-one coaching, workshops, and support groups for special needs families.

In January 2024, she published Your True Self Is Enough, part memoir part guidebook, and it’s the blueprint for special-needs caregivers that she wished for 20 years prior.


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Hey mama, welcome back to another episode of the well -nourished mama podcast. I am so excited for you to listen to today's episode because it is a guest interview with my friend Susanna and we are talking all about parenting children with autism and ADHD.

I was super excited about this interview because I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and my son is kind of giving off some vibes that he might be I don't know ADHD on the spectrum a little bit but also he's too so like can't really you know say much when they're that little but I'm just kind of you know keeping my my little notes in my head and paying attention to things and just doing the best with what I can and so when I sat down to talk to Susanna with this interview I was not only asking on your behalf but also on my behalf as well because I wanted to know what signs do you look for how can you tell that you might need to seek a diagnosis from a certified professional what do you do if you get a diagnosis how does this change how you parent your children how does this change how we see ourselves as parents all of these questions that I feel like a lot of moms struggle with and maybe you do too but something that I really really loved about our interview is how Susanna focused on changing our mindset we can't really change the outcome or the diagnosis right but if we can change our mindset both about ourselves and about our children then it will set us up for success when it comes to how we interact with our children so this interview was super eye -opening to me I think it's my longest interview to date I literally just could not stop talking to Susanna she is such a light such an amazing woman she wrote a book we talked about her book and I hope you can tell that like the energy in our inner is just so good.

So I don't want to keep you any further from listening to the interview. So just remember that if you haven't already be sure to subscribe to the podcast and turn on automatic downloads. This helps boost me in the podcast algorithm, if you will, so that new mamas can discover our corner of the internet and it also helps me better engage with you, right?

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So with that let's jump into today's episode with Susannah all about parenting children with autism and ADHD. Hey mama, my name is Brooke, and just like you, I want to show it from my kids in the best way possible.

But you and I both know that that means our cup needs to be filled first. Here on the Well -Nourished Mama podcast, we learn about all the different ways we can nourish our bodies, minds, and souls in every stage of motherhood, including pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.

As a mama of two and certified postpartum nutritionist, I'm here to educate, empower, and inspire you as you navigate your unique motherhood journey and raise your family. Tune in each week for episodes about nutrition, exercise, wellness, lactation, marriage, and so much more, and walk away with simple but actionable tips to help you be a well -nourished mama.

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I had night sweats for weeks, my brain fog and fatigue were overwhelming, I developed many food sensitivities, and anxiety ruled my life. Flush forward to now, just three months postpartum with my second baby, I'm the total opposite.

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Inside, you'll find a six -week recovery plan with 48 nourishing recipes and the science behind postpartum recovery so you have all the tools you need to flourish. Head to today's show notes to get on the VIP list.

Susanna Peace -Lavelle is an advocate for disability families, speaker, autism expert, author, certified professional life coach, and Reiki practitioner. Susanna received her bachelor's from UC Berkeley and is a certified professional life coach and advocate dedicated to the health and wellness of special needs families everywhere.

Her own daughter, Arizona, has multiple challenges and diagnoses, including autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, anxiety, and myriad food allergies. On her journey of navigating through the worry and heartbreak of raising a special needs child Susanna found her true life calling to help other parents find and realize joy and passion in their own lives.

She provides one -on -one coaching workshops and support groups for special needs families. In January 2024, she published Your True Self is Enough, which is a part memoir part guidebook, and it's the blueprint for special needs caregivers that she'd wished for 20 years prior.

Susanna, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today. I'm excited to have you here. Thank you. Good to be here. I am really excited for our conversation today because I want some advice on my kids.

I have talked about this a little bit on my social media, but I have ADHD. And so I am just like anxiously awaiting to hear all of your answers for our questions today so I can understand what to look out for for my kids and maybe how to like do some things for myself as well.

So I know our conversation is going to be good today. Well, before we before we get in, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey with motherhood and kind of where you got how you got to where you are today?

Yeah, so, well, I, you know, the story sort of begins before I became a mother because I was so obsessed with becoming a mother my entire life, and I come from a really big family. I'm one of five siblings.

My dad is one of 13. My mom was an only child, but I think the combination of the two of them, they were like, let's let's have a basketball team, you know, let's have a football team. So the so I come from a big family, you know, my siblings now all have lots of kids.

My brother has five kids. My sister is working anyway. So this is just sort of the energy and the environment in which I was always really comfortable with growing up. So I decided decided, you know, that I was also going to have a big family.

And I couldn't wait and I wanted to get started right away. I wanted four kids, maybe five, but at least four. So I like to start off by saying this because I really was like, I could not think of any other life that would matter for me if it didn't also include being a mother.

So I had different ideas throughout, you know, my upbringing in terms of like what I wanted to do for a career, but what never, ever, ever shifted or changed was this desire for me to be a mother. So I, you know, am a person who is very type A, sort of a control freak.

I like to do things my way and I have this, you know, I just have this idea that I know how to do it best. And so I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna work hard. I'm gonna study hard, whatever it is for the end result to be X.

So that is, that's me, Susanna. So anyway, I met my then husband almost 20 years ago -ish, 20 something years ago. And, you know, we dated for a couple years and then we decided to get married and three months later I was pregnant and I was like, he, he, he, my little plan is working.

And I just was so excited. I didn't even think about anything other than, okay, this was my plan and now here we go full, you know, force ahead, the train has left the station. And, you know, my pregnancy was very, very challenging, but not, you know, not abnormal.

I was, I was nauseous. I threw up a lot. I threw up for seven months of my pregnancy. I was very sort of uncomfortable and miserable. I just, you know, didn't have like a very enjoyable, like sort of blissed out pregnancy that you hear about sometimes with some mothers, with the, you know, the flowing, you know, hair and just this tiny little bump in front of them.

That was not my experience, but I also knew that, okay, well there's, you know, this is a temporary, you know, situation here because my baby's going to be born. And so I was ecstatic when I found out that I was having a baby girl.

I actually had a dream that I was going to have a baby girl before I knew for sure. And I just had this idea that I was going to have this little mini me and I could not wait to get started. And so I gave birth and it was a fairly, you know, again, not super atypical, not super common either.

There were some little complications in terms of like, she just didn't want to come out necessarily. So the doctor had to use sort of a big strong like vacuum suction thing that was sort of unexpected.

I didn't really know about that as a possibility. And so that was a little bit scary and blood splattering everywhere, but other than that, oh, and then I also tore a lot. really gruesome scene. But other than that, I felt like the birth sort of was, you know, uneventful.

What I did notice is that my daughter, whose name is Arizona, was very, very loud right away and just, you know, constantly needing so much attention, like almost like commanding attention from like the second she was born.

And again, you know, you are like, okay, that's great. Baby's got lungs. That's amazing. She's loud. She's crying. You know, she's thriving. She's here. And so that's kind of the beginning of my motherhood journey.

And so just to sort of sum it up, my daughter now is almost 18. She is almost a legal adult, which she likes to remind me about. And our journey has included so many different sort of various like. diagnoses and challenges along the way, starting with food allergies.

That was why she was so fussy and uncomfortable for the first like 18 months of her life. She cried nonstop. I always had to carry her and bounce her and soothe her. She was so uncomfortable. She was so miserable.

Obviously she couldn't communicate. It was a very, very stressful and challenging time trying to find ways to keep my baby sort of calm. And every day was just like, I was like looking at the clock every minute of every day in those early days, trying to understand like how I was gonna get through, you know, one minute at a time.

And that sort of translated into asthma. She started having more asthmatic episodes. And then, you know, when she was about one and a half to, I just noticed that she was not developing the way that, you know, I had known other kids to be developing, but, you know, all of the experts, the pediatrician, everyone was like, yeah, but that's because she's been dealing with these crazy food allergies.

So she hasn't been available to the outside world. And so now she can start her journey with engagement and connecting and eye contact and everything that I was kind of like wondering what was going on with her.

She had language, so she had words here and there. She wasn't really communicating. There wasn't any back and forth communication, but she had words to describe objects. And so, but it just seemed that she was sort of aloof and disconnected.

And so I was just like, why are you so stubborn? You know, like that was my translation of what was happening. Like you're a stubborn kid, pay attention to what I'm saying, you know? And anyway, that ultimately led to a call from one of my sisters who had some kids of her own at the time.

And she was like, Susanna, I think there's something different about Arizona. And I can't put my finger on it. on it, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I think you should have her checked out. And it was as if, you know, I sort of got punched in the gut because I just felt like, you know, this intuitive sense that I don't know what it is either, but my sister's right.

Like something is going on with Arizona. And I, you know, as much as I had been around kids my entire life, like I didn't know. It's so different when you're like the mother, you know? Yeah. And so I just, that led to lots of doctor's appointments.

You know, I basically harassed my pediatrician, you know, because he was like, nothing's wrong. Everything's fine. She walks, she talks, you know, like all of these markers. And I was like, yeah, but there's something else.

You know what I mean? And finally in tears, like I broke down in tears, like on my third call to him. And I was like, I don't care if you think I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Like I just need to talk to someone who will soothe.

My mommy worry, like I just, my gut is on overdrive. Like I, there's something going on here. And he's like, fine, fine. You know, I'll send you to a developmental pediatrician, which is what I did next.

And then that wait list was so long anyway. So after all of this, my motherhood journey now, you know, included some additional diagnoses along the way. So first came autism spectrum disorder. So that was started off with like some issues around her auditory processing.

So you have auditory processing disorder, autism spectrum. A couple of years later, they were able to officially test her for ADHD. They took back then they waited until the child was around six years old.

And so we got the neuropsych testing that did confirm her ADHD. And then from there, she has been diagnosed with anxiety, generalized anxiety disorder as well. So this is where we are. I am, you know, raising my daughter solo, by the way, meaning she's my only child.

So coming back to this desire for this huge family and lots of kiddos, you know, that's not how it turned out for me. And so there has been so much, you know, having to pivot and shift and change and be flexible with my thinking and my visioning for my motherhood that has been a constant, constant theme in this journey so far.

So that's where we are today. And by the way, I'm so grateful that I am surviving most days, sometimes even thriving. And so because of Arizona's diagnoses and journey and challenges, I, you know, started a coaching business helping other families with kiddos who have special needs.

And I started that about 10, 10. 12 years ago because I just felt like, you know, I was so in the dark when Arizona was diagnosed with so many different things. I felt so isolated, so alone, so like, even though I, you know, were here in Los Angeles, California, which is, you know, there are an abundance of resources here for so many different things, I still felt like I have no idea what I'm doing.

There's no roadmap, there's no blueprint, there's nothing. I don't even know another mom who has a kid with learning differences or any special needs or any sort of therapeutic needs, right? Not one.

So it was very challenging. We've come a long way for sure, but I'll tell you, 16 plus years ago it was a very different picture. Oh yeah, so much has changed in the last 16 years. I can only imagine what it was like back then.

I know. Yeah, I can't even, well, first of all, it was all such a blur because I was just, you know, sort of going through the motions of just trying to survive each day. And I am so elated with all of the services and offerings and conversations and awareness around, you know, neurodiversity.

I am so grateful. Yeah, oh my goodness. Speaking of children, I forgot to mention for the mom is listening that Hannah is next to me on the floor. I thought I picked quiet toys. Apparently not. She's finding a way to make them not quiet toys.

So if you hear any background noise, that's Hannah. Oh my goodness. What an amazing journey, Susanna. And I know you don't share this journey to say woe is me, my life is so hard. It didn't turn out the way I want.

It's you saying, Oh my gosh, look at the cards I've been dealt. And it's just a learning curve, right? It's something that I'm sure you and your daughter have had to both navigate together. You know, at the time when she was two or three, how much can she really do?

But still, you guys have to learn how to work together as a team and learn how she communicates and find a way for her to understand your communication. Like, I'm sure it's been such a journey. And that's what I want to talk to you about today.

Because I feel like maybe it's just because we're becoming more aware now in 2024. But I feel like I'm seeing more and more children being diagnosed with autism and ADHD, and more adults like me that haven't been diagnosed until, you know, their 20s or 30s.

And so, again, I don't know if it's just more people becoming aware or if it's the circumstances are actually increasing. But I feel like today's conversation is gonna be really enlightening just to understand what to look for, how to navigate that with our children and all of that stuff.

So first question I want to ask you, you talked about this a little bit. What are some of the signs that you noticed that led you to seeking a diagnosis? Now you mentioned your sister kind of put a little bug in your ear and you would ask some questions to the pediatrician but what were some of like the key things that you're like you know what I think this means something's different with my daughter.

Yeah so I will say you know reflecting back on you know this journey I I feel like I was a little I had some blinders on initially because I'm so focused on allergy issues and I love that Hannah is joining our conversation.

That's her concentration sound. Yes oh look it's you Colby. Hi Hannah it's me Suzanne. I so I had this focus on the allergy stuff right so I'm just like you know you know heads down like you know again blinders on like focusing on making sure my daughter's not gonna have any you know allergy episodes right and she t -t -toe covered in eczema.

I mean, it was a really dire situation. She was allergic to like three pages full of things, like just lists and lists and lists. And so I was breastfeeding exclusively and I was so miserable because I couldn't eat anything tasty because I wanted to make sure that she wouldn't have any reaction to what I would think.

So I was so focused on that. So by the time I realized that, you know, we sort of got a handle on the allergies, like between the eight month to two year marker, I, that's when I started paying attention to everything else.

So I will say that one of the first, first signs was that Arizona just always seemed to be doing her own idea. And so initially I thought, okay, well, that she's just being stubborn. She doesn't want to listen, but really she was in her own world.

Like I wasn't sure what her intention was for the things that she was doing. For example, she had all these stuffed animals and she loved these stuffed animals, but she didn't necessarily play with them like she's their mom or, you know, making scenarios with them.

She would pick up her stuffed animals, run to a room, like my bathroom, open a drawer, stuff them into a drawer, hang out for a little bit. Then she'd run away, come back with another stuffed animal, pick up all the stuffed animals, go into the kitchen, open the oven, put the, you know, stuffed animals in the oven.

It was like very interesting. I was like, I wonder what kind of game that she's playing in her head. I didn't know, but she seemed happy, right? So she's like giggling and happy. And again, like she's not crying all the time, you know, every day, right?

So I'm just like ecstatic that the eczema has, you know, left her body, she seems to be, we've figured out the best diet for her. I'm cooking all of these sort of like gluten -free vegan organic foods every day.

like three times a day, but I was like, that's okay. You know, this is, we're in our rhythm, fine. I'm gonna be this allergy mom, right? Yeah. So it was really like, I would say the disconnect, the doing her own idea, like being in her own world, there wasn't much eye contact.

So she couldn't make that connection really. You kind of had to like get on the floor to even be able to somehow get some eye contact from her. And I didn't even realize that until I met with our developmental pediatrician for the first time who was telling me about that.

And also too, like even though she had words, and again, like if I can go back to the pediatrician, the appointment, the initial appointment with the pediatrician who was like, had this checklist for developmental delays and autism specifically, and it was like, is the child talking?

Check, yes. You know, does the child walk and when did the child start walking? Arizona started walking at 12 months, check, right? So you have this checklist of all of the things that they have considered to be markers of normal development.

And so, and again, I'm sure it's so much different today, but back then it was like, well, if you hit three of the five checks, then there's nothing to worry about, period. There was like no like gray area.

It was like black or white, you know? Oh, and as we know now, like autism is such a huge wide spectrum and so is neurodiversity. And so there were, you know, it was really, really, you know, troublesome trying to understand how to explain my daughter to others.

But again, she could talk, she could say words, she could even say phrases like want chips, want salmon, you know, like I want to eat something, whatever it is, but she would not be coming to be to ask me, you know?

She would sort of be in the other room and I'd hear this little voice saying like, want chips, you know, want juice, something like that. So even though she was saying want chip, want juice because she wanted chips and juice, she wasn't having a, she wasn't able to have sort of like this reciprocal conversation with me.

She didn't have any receptive language, you know? She only had expressed, her expressive language was off the charts. Her receptive language was like 0%. And so that was so confusing and troubling and, you know, the doctors were like, wow, maybe she has a hearing issue and hearing challenges, take her to get her hearing tested.

And I was like, yeah, but how would she know words if she couldn't hear the words, to say words, right? I mean, it was so confusing, I was so confused. And again, it was, you know, she's also a girl.

So there were some differences there and we can get into that later. but I really would say, like, the biggest thing was just her not being able to connect and not being able to have, you know, sort of a back and forth, even if it's just pointing to something, even if she didn't have words.

There was no pointing to anything. There was no trying to get my attention. It just was, everything was about what she needed right now in the moment and how she could let me know. So interesting. So it sounds like it was a lengthy process to try and get a diagnosis, and you probably had some idea of what diagnosis you were looking for, but maybe at the same time you weren't quite sure.

So I'd love for you to talk to me about the diagnosis process. Did you have to get referred by your standard pediatrician? Was it covered by insurance? Did it take a lot of time? Like, just kind of talk to me about the nitty -gritty of getting diagnosed, especially for our kids.

What's that like? Yeah. So I will say that, yes, it was very lengthy. It was cumbersome. You know, again, I was very much in the dark. I didn't really know anything about autism, to be honest with you.

I knew about like developmental issues, potentially cognitive, you know, delays, intellectual sort of disabilities, but I just I didn't hear the word autism that much. Bless you, Hannah. There we go.

I, I was very much like, I'm not sure what we're looking for. I just want to know what's going on. Like something's different. Her development is different. She's not engaging. What does that mean? I don't know.

I have no idea. No clue. And even when they were doing the sort of autism checklist back at the pediatrician, they weren't talking about autism. They were just talking about, yeah, there's no issues with development.

So check, check, check, check. She's fine. Arizona's fine. So, again, got my found my way to a developmental pediatrician. The first appointment I could get with them was like six months out or three months, something like that, something crazy.

And at this point, Arizona is almost two and a half years old. And so, you know, I'm freaking out a little bit. The developmental pediatrician was not covered by insurance. And so that was a big chunk of change.

You know, they provided a super bill that I, that we could submit to insurance after the fact. And so we got a, you know, some money back, but it really was not impactful. Yeah. So, you know, they, we had to do multiple multiple sessions with the developmental pediatrician so she could assess Arizona.

And she was initially along the way and toward the end when we got the official diagnosis. But prior to that, we had also heard about this. developmental sort of, I can't, I don't really remember exactly what her, she was some sort of developmental expert, but wasn't a doctor.

And so we somehow, someone told us about her. So we went to go see her. And when we went to see her, she took one look at Arizona and was like, ah, she's totally fine. And she's playing, she's engaging.

And it's just because she had this sort of medical challenge in the beginning of her life, which is all of the food allergies and symptoms that arose from that period of time that she wasn't able to develop normally during that time.

So she's just a little bit delayed, but there's nothing that she's gonna catch right up. And so at that point, we were kind of like relieved, but kind of not really trusting, you know, like really? She's fine, like everything's fine, like, and so I canceled the appointment with the developmental pediatrician because I was thinking, well, why do we need to pay all this money if she's fine, right?

And it turns out that that wasn't accurate. Like my, again, my gut feeling was like, yeah, yeah. And I'm still wanting to know for sure. You know, I just want second opinion, third opinion, fourth opinion, because I'm still not feeling settled in myself.

So I called back the developmental pediatrician and they were like, yeah, sorry, you know, we're not taking any more new patients right now. And I was like, what? I just had an appointment. I mean, I started crying, crying, crying, crying, sobbing, sobbing, sobbing.

I was like, but we had an appointment and then we thought everything was okay, but it turns out everything is not okay, you know? And they were able to get me in, you know, in a couple of months. And so I was very grateful for that, but I had to be very tenacious about that as well, because they weren't, again, they were just like, well, we just don't have any space.

And I was like, please, like pleading, you know? Yeah, help me, have mercy on me. I just don't know what else to do. And so those few months leading up to that initial meeting was just, I was just an anxious little bunny.

So worried, so, you know, uncertain, so concerned, trying to be as present as possible with Arizona during that time. And definitely not paying attention to my needs at all. Zero percent. So it just was a, it was a challenging time.

It was dark days for sure. I also was struggling with, you know, the residual effects of horrendous bout of postpartum anxiety and depression that I experienced personally. And so it just was all a haze.

And again, like every day was like, I'm gonna get through this next minute. going to make it to the morning nap. And then from there, I'm going to make it to the next feeding, you know, and then from there, I'm going to make it to the afternoon nap, right?

And then I'm going to make it to the 30 minute 5pm nap, right? It just, it was just, I was just looking at the clock nonstop back then. I can only imagine, especially because I know how different it is now.

I'm like trying to imagine what it was like way back then when not only did we not have the resources and knowledge that we do now, but we didn't talk about this stuff, you know? Even just saying that you as an adult struggled with mental health 16 years ago was kind of like, you know, people looked at you different.

So, oh my goodness, that's just absolutely wild. You mentioned that because she was a girl, it changed the diagnostic process. I know as adults that men and women present differently with ADHD. So I'm curious if there are signs that are different for little boys and little girls if it if whether it's autism or ADHD are there differences between the two genders?

For sure, and you know, I don't want to overgeneralize at all but you know, I do a lot of research here. I have been so committed and passionate about girls on the spectrum and girls who are neurodivergent from a very very you know early start with Arizona only because very much a girl right and she had all of these therapies and social skills groups and classes and everybody was always you know, it was majority boys and Arizona was often the only girl in the room and so She did notice from an early age.

Where are the other girls mama, you know? and I you know, I really felt you know her need for something in addition to This sort of the basic social thinking and emotional thinking skills that she was learning back then especially in these groups and I just noticed that there was such a difference.

So the findings now and the studies and research show now that you know girls in general are You know able to mask better, you know, they are able to maneuver and navigate social situations a little bit better And I don't even like to use the word better.

It's just different so a lot of times even if they are focused specifically on like a You know a specific topic which by the way is not uncommon with just folks with autism in general A lot of times someone will be fixated on obsessed with trains or obsessed with dinosaurs or obsessed with, right?

And with girls, it's often very much something that has to do with sort of the social construct of what we expect from, quote, quote, girls. So for example, my daughter Arizona is really obsessed with dolls.

She calls herself a doll collector and she has all different kinds of dolls. You know, they're all sort of sentient beings. They, you know, again, she's almost 18. Her American, she still craves the American girl store.

So for her 18th birthday, she wants to go to the American girl store. And so when she was younger, you know, she's talking about dolls. And so that's something that girls typically do. And again, I'm, you know, I'm overgeneralizing, but, you know, the majority is yes.

OK, so that makes sense. And then also too, a lot of times there will be some misdiagnoses with girls in that she's, you know, having behavioral outbursts or she's having tantrums or however it is that she's acting out.

And so it's very easy for professionals to just label that as emotional stuff, mental health challenges and situations. Oh, she has anxiety. Oh, she's depressed. And so there's not really a lot of understanding and honoring around the brain, not, you know, functioning the way and processing things the way that sort of a typical brain would.

So those are just some of the things. And that is why it's so interesting, you know, I have friends now who are also adult girlfriends who are now also adults, you know, getting diagnosed with ADHD. Oh my goodness.

Well, that's why. Well, no wonder, right. And it's such, it's always such a relief. It's always such this beautiful revelation, you know, in the cases that I've seen as adults being diagnosed later in life.

But there's also sort of this mourning and grief around, oh my goodness, I wish I could have been supported with this brain, you know, growing up instead of feeling like I'm just irresponsible and not organized.

I can never get anywhere on time, you know, I'm not smart enough. I'm not enough. What's wrong with me? Yeah, it's, it's, it's wild. You know, I keep hearing stories. I see stories on TikTok. I have women reach out to me.

And I lean more towards the ADHD side because that's my world. And I know the, I don't want to say the primary diagnosis, but I guess the main focus with your daughter is autism but yeah it's so crazy to hear that so many girls and women are slipping under the cracks and like you said it's it's because we're able to mask I've heard it explained where it's high -functioning so you know people look at me and you know I think back to when I was in high school and I'm like wow my life makes sense now but like you look at me in high school I was a perfectionist you know I was like really really dedicated but I had to study a lot like it was really hard for me to commit things to memory and retain it and then be able to recall I can recognize really well so if you put four choices in front of me I got it but if you ask me to like recall out of thin air it's like oh let me go dig let me go find that file in my brain but all of the filing cabinets in my brain are pulled open and spelled out on the floor so now I have to like search on the floor for this file that I'm looking for.

That's what it feels like. So it is totally true that women manifest differently. And I think when it comes to our kids, not trying to just write off and be like, oh, I'm gonna look to see what thing my kid has.

That's not what we're doing, right? It's just trying to pay attention to recognize that there are differences and kind of knowing the signs so that, like you said, it takes a little bit of pressure off of your plate.

Instead of just being like, why isn't my kid doing this? Why isn't my kid doing this? You just be like, okay, I know the classic signs of autism or I know the classic signs of this. I'm just gonna keep it in the back of my head while my baby's growing up.

And then if you start to notice them, you just be like, okay, I'll tuck that away for later. And just kind of put your puzzle pieces together until you feel like you have enough information to be like, yeah, you know, my kid just took longer, you know, my brother -in -law, he didn't walk until he was 17 months old.

I hear that story and I can only imagine like as a mom, like, oh my gosh, my baby is almost 18 months old and they're still not walking. So I know my mother -in -law was really stressed, but my brother -in -law is totally fine, right?

So some kids just do do things slower. So it's important to recognize that there are signs and that they are different for boys and girls. And then I think the most important thing that I really wanna touch on that you said was trusting your gut.

There's something about a mom's intuition, call it anxiety, call it obsessiveness with our kids, whatever you want. But there's something about a mom's intuition where you can have the smartest doctor in the room and I would still trust the mom because us moms just know.

And you are such a great example of being like, no, I'm gonna keep asking questions. I'm gonna keep showing up to the pediatrician. I'm gonna keep scheduling appointments until I get the answer that I feel like is the right answer and not taking no for an answer until you are so confident that you know.

what's going on. And I want our mamas to really listen to your story and be like, okay, I need to have the courage to do what Susanna did because our kids need us to stick up for them because they don't know how to do that.

Yeah, it's, it's constant advocacy, but I, you know, leaning back into that, that, that, that literally gut feeling, right? Is there is so much wisdom within us. And so the more we can honor and trust that, the more we can become a better advocate, number one, for ourselves, which will then, you know, allow us to have sort of the time, the energy, the space, the overflow to then be able to effectively advocate for our kiddos.

And I cannot emphasize enough that when you do have that feeling and a lot of us know what that feeling it is, you know, even just in life in general, should I go down that alley? Should I not? No, I think, right.

So. It really is like this beautiful way to honor ourselves and then just know that we can be tenacious and warriors for ourselves, for our kiddos in a way that is not off -putting or puts other people at the defensive.

So I know my personality is always like, okay, I'm gonna, how can I make this happen? Let me just figure out how to make this happen. But that is not how all of us are. Some of us are a little bit more timid or shy or not sure of our own voice.

And I would just come from a place of, and I teach my clients this all the time, like I really need your help. I'm really hoping that you can help me. I'm so worried, I'm so afraid, I'm so uncertain.

I don't know what's going on. I really am hoping you can help me. And that, to me, opens so many more doors than if I was like, okay, someone needs to, ah, you know what I mean? Like, tell me right now, like figure it, because then people get defensive and they don't necessarily want to help someone who seems so demanding, no matter what the intention is from the inside, right?

The fact remains that we're all worried, we're all scared, we're all concerned, we all feel hopeless, you know? And we just want some answers. Yeah, yeah. Having answers and doing it in a kind of way, right?

Showing up to the doctor and saying, hey, look, I think there's something going on. You know more than I do. Here are the things that I've observed. Can we work together? Can you please answer my questions?

Or can you please help my baby, right? Yeah, Hannah wants to make sure she's being heard right now. Yeah, respectful communication. And I have so many podcast episodes about this, about different scripts for different situations, but yeah, just like.

said at the end of the day, it's coming to them saying, I came to you because I need your help. Please help me and please take the information that I have and then combine it with what you know and let's figure out what's going on.

Right? Yes. Yes. Such a good way to approach it. Yeah, exactly. Like we're a team. Like we literally, I call everyone like so grateful that you're part of team Arizona. This is, you know, this is a collaborative effort and I'm so grateful.

And so let's, you know, how can I support what you're saying would be supportive for Arizona at home or, you know, the therapies that you're recommending. I mean, it really, it takes a community, a village.

We have to create our own often. And, you know, that just makes, you know, you feel This is so fun with a six -month -old baby, huh? Hi Hannah. Yeah, it takes a village. And however you can find that village, right?

Not all of us have all of the resources to make it possible, but however you can find your village, even if it's just a next -door neighbor that will give you an hour to yourself once a week or whatever it is, finding ways to make it work.

So going off of that, I would love to pick your brain about some things that we can do for our kids, if our kids are on the spectrum. What are some approaches that you have found to have worked for Arizona when it comes to how you communicate or how you teach responsibility or household tasks or just whatever it is?

What are some different approaches that you have found have worked for Arizona? This is a great question. I love this question and it will shift and change as your kiddos grow older and have different needs, have different unmet needs.

But I think what I was able to do from an early age was just to create this foundation and space and honoring Arizona for exactly who she is. So, you know, I was talking about all of the diagnoses and when she was about five or six, I was at an acupuncture appointment and I was on the acupuncture table and I was sobbing, sobbing, sobbing as per usual.

And so we had all kinds of stuff going on with her diagnoses but I realized back then that all of her diagnoses happened to start with the letter A. So I'm sitting there on the acupuncture table thinking about autism, allergies, asthma, ADHD, anxiety, and literally like, oh my gosh, having this epiphanous moment of A is for Arizona, right?

So like, how can I focus on this, this, this being with the therapies and the support that she needs to help be successful in this world as a human being? But really, you know, I had to start off with being like, just shifting the lens of Arizona is perfect and whole and complete exactly as she is, like she is a child of God, right?

There can't be, you know, this isn't like a mistake or in an accident, right? She is just this perfect whole, perfectly intact soul. So I had to start with that and I've actually had to teach a lot of parents and clients around honoring their child because what happens is when they are acting differently, when their behavior is, you know, not not comfortable for us, right?

Then we often wanna be like, ah, we need to fix that, right? There's something wrong. And again, yes, they need supports and tools and resources to help them understand why their body is doing what they're doing or why they are responding the way they're responding.

But ultimately, if we start from a place of like, okay, there's nothing broken here, so nothing needs to be fixed. And how can we have, create a safe space for this child to be able to express themselves exactly as they need to express themselves in this moment?

You know, whether it's crying or screaming or throwing or jumping off. One of the things that was so calming and regulatory to Arizona early on was this pro -perceptive input, like jumping from the highest spot that you could find in the house, which luckily was only the dining table.

But she would jump from the dining table to the floor over and over and over again, because when she landed, that just calmed her body. And so if she was sort of out of sorts, she had been outside, there was all this sensory stimuli, or we were at the market and there are sounds and noises and all of this mumble jumble, sort of going into her brain like a traffic jam, she would need these support systems.

And so understanding our children, like understanding what their needs are and allowing them to know and feel whether we think that they can understand or not that they're not in trouble, you know, there's nothing wrong, you're not in trouble, tell me more, let me understand more.

Like having the foundation for that has been absolutely imperative and so supportive and so impactful in my ability to raise Arizona to the age of 18. I am fortunate in that she has words. and language so that she can express herself in a way that is, you know, I can understand.

And she always knows that there is going to be, you know, space for us to have a conversation without her, you know, feeling shame or guilt or judged around it. Now, given the conversation, we didn't need to have a process together.

Okay, so how can we work on this? Tell me more. I ask a lot of questions. Tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more. And I feel like when we can give that space to our kiddos, it is honestly so impactful and so powerful.

Because we're not coming from a place of, you know, I need to correct you because you were doing something wrong. It's more like, how can I help you be in a situation where you will need to be A, not running into the street, B, you know, things that are going to keep you safe, right?

Yeah, so and even even in social, you know situations like the way that you are expressing yourself could mean this in which case there could be a consequence of someone, you know, reacting or responding a certain way right just constantly like just processing processing processing processing.

Yeah, I love what you said about just meeting your kids where they're at and coming to the table with the perspective of I'm not trying to fix my kid. Right. Yes, we're there to teach and help them learn how to function in society, but we're not here to fix our kids.

Right. We're here to fine tune them to to mold them in a way that allows them to thrive in their own capacity and something that I've had to remind myself is that each child's capacity is different, right?

What might be 100% capacity for my son is going to be totally different than my daughter and it's not like I'm trying to build them up to function at the same level and be exactly the same. It's I'm trying to create scenarios and situations that allow them to thrive in the best way that they can for themselves.

My son hasn't officially been diagnosed with anything and I don't really think there's anything going on with him, but he is a very energetic two year old boy. He likes to crash. He likes to bang. He likes to jump.

He likes to break. He likes to, you know, he's a two year old boy. But something that I have learned is that sometimes when he is feeling over simulated, he will just randomly start throwing stuff because he feels jumbled.

He feels out of sorts. And so he's, you know, reaching and grabbing and trying to make sense of something, whether that's if I push this, I know it will crash or if I do this, I know I will get dirty or something.

he tries to find a way to control through sensory things and I have learned that about him and so instead of looking at it as bad behavior I've had to sit there and be like okay I think I know what's going on his brain I'm not gonna tell him that he's in trouble I'm gonna see if I can meet him where he's at and say hey how about instead of throwing your truck why don't we go through a pillow why don't we go through your stuffed animal right finding a way to reach channel that energy in a way that meets his needs but also keeps people safe and so I really love that you touched on that because that has been a game -changer for my son and at this point he doesn't have any sort of spectrum disorders going on but it's so valuable to recognize that yeah we're not trying to mold our kids and to be these little clones of be exactly like me or be exactly what society says Okay, here are like the general rules, right?

We don't jump in the street, we don't hit people, but like, here's your own little world, let's figure out how to help you thrive. Yes, exactly that. And I love so much this idea of getting into his world with him, like in terms of like, let's go get some pillows, you know, let's go get some stuffed animals and you can sort of make it a game and be playful.

And then it's like, you know, mommy's in this with me. You know, I feel so supported, I feel so safe. And that is just a feeling that can carry on as your son gets older and older. And of course you're gonna be paying attention, you know, because that's the mom that you are.

And again, like, you know, instead of being like, uh, time out, you know what I mean, right? Because really, I mean, we were looking for not just this temporary fix, we're looking for how can, you know, he find ways to be supportive of himself as he's getting older and has other situations where he's dysregulated by, you know, external sensory stuff, you know, maybe, you know, he won't be throwing stuff.

Maybe he'll be, you know, skiing, you know, down a mountain, you know what I mean? Or, or a skateboarding or, you know, whatever it else, whacking a tennis ball, who knows? Like there are so many different ways that, you know, we regulate.

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And kind of going along with this, I want to hear some of your suggestions for building relationships. We've kind of talked more about the logistical stuff of, you know, keeping our emotions in check and how we do things in public and safety and things like that, but I know kids on the spectrum are really hard to connect with emotionally, right?

You mentioned that your daughter doesn't have a lot of eye contact. Her vocabulary is limited, but it is there. and not all autistic children have a really strong vocabulary so it's hard to develop these relationships that are meaningful and you feel like you're getting something out of it rather than just trying to always react to whatever they present so what are some things that you've done to build your relationship with your daughter just as a mom and daughter not as a parent and a child just two family members that need each other and love each other how have you done that?

Yeah so I will so my family is just me in my household is just me and my daughter so my husband and I got divorced maybe 10 11 12 years ago at this point I'm not sure he's definitely involved he lives you know not in the same city and so Arizona is with me pretty much full time and so I you know we had to come up with a way to be together on this you know parallel journey of life and I decided early on even though I had sort of a miserable start to parenthood that I didn't want to have a miserable life like I was like I want to be able to access joy like I want to be able to find ways to thrive and I want to be able to do the things with my daughter that will be fun and important to both of us and we're so different right we're like she is actually my mini me in terms of like the way we look which is uncanny and amazing and she has different ideas right what I have learned with being with her and having this sort of symbiotic relationship in a very healthy way is that I we have we have different ways of needing to express ourselves being able to release our feelings and get back to sort of like a dorsal ventral state within our nervous systems so for For example, me, I'm obsessed with rioting in my journal.

For me, I need to get every single word out, every feeling out. I've been keeping a journal since I was 13 years old. That is very cathartic for me. I feel calm, I feel at peace. I just need to release that.

When Arizona has a worry, she can sometimes need to bounce on an exercise ball, slap the ball very loudly, listen to very, very loud K -pop music, okay? That's her genre of choice. I love it. And that to her is so soothing, okay?

It has the opposite effect on me, right? So we have to collaborate and work together. So for example, on the way to school, what calms her and gets her ready for school to be able to focus is to listen to some loud K -pop.

So we have to compromise. I'm like, okay, so Arizona, are we gonna listen to this song right when we get in the car? Do you wanna listen to it? Right as we're pulling up to the school. So we'll give you like three minutes before we get to school You can listen to this song and you can rock out have at it So we had we're constantly constantly, you know, let's make a compromise, you know, that's how we talk to each other and you know You know early on this might sound so like material and simple but it just was so was such a huge milestone for me and That is you know, Arizona never never never, you know It was really hard for her to be touched by people, you know hairbrushed or whatever anything was just overwhelming and And so I just always had this vision of you know Taking my daughter to the nails along with me, you know And it was just never something that could happen because she couldn't tolerate sitting still number one Yeah number two just even someone being able to hold her hands And so I just I just had this wish and I was like, you know, maybe this will happen Maybe it won't happen and it turns out that Arizona was so interested in having her nails painted So I started painting them at home I would bring her to the nail salon with me sometimes with someone else there because in case she like ran away and Then I just worked with the folks at the nail salon who just just brought her into the conversation made her feel so Safe and special and now we can go to the nail salon together and both get her name And like it's it seems like so Ooh, this is how you know, how privileged is your life?

Yes Well, this is something that so many people take for granted and it's something that is a desire of mine that now at the age Of 17 my daughter and I can do this together and that has not been the case For many many many years.

I mean, I know You know Moms who will just have their kid on their lap the whole time For the first couple of years of their life and it's fine. That has it's not been my, that has not been my experience.

So I just celebrate all the little wins and the milestones and you know, we are constantly like honoring each other. We're talking about our intentions all the time, like what's your intention for today?

I'm gonna have a great day, mama, you know? And we talk about, you know, we acknowledge ourselves, we affirm things and you know, it's not always rainbow and cupcakes, but for sure we have this way to communicate with each other, openly listening to each other and understanding what we each need in each moment.

That's beautiful. Something I love about what you said is that you invited your daughter to be part of your world as well. I don't wanna put labels on anybody and I am trying not to generalize, but I feel like.

From what I've seen, a lot of parents that have kids on the spectrum will have their lifestyle and everyone else's needs and schedules cater to and conform to the child that is struggling. And that's not always a bad thing.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I think what it prevents from happening is an opportunity for them to stretch and grow and recognize that they do have their own little universe that's different than everyone else, but they are still part of our world.

And what I love about what you said is you gave your daughter a chance to recognize that in a very small and simple way and then over time you could build on it. So, you know, at first it was just saying, hey, you know what?

And I don't know how you said that, but it could have been something as simple as we're going to listen to one K -pop song in the car, right? Because you can't tolerate an entire car ride, but you can tolerate a little bit.

And so you helped her see, hey, mommy recognizes that this is your favor and this is what helps you relax. But it's really hard for me to listen to K -pop. But I still want to listen to it because I know it will help you.

So how can we do this together? And that is such a valuable thing that I think any parent can apply, whether or not their child is on the spectrum, that our kids need to see that we are people too. We're not just their parent.

We're not just the person who's in charge of their schedule and their food and their clothing and their tuition when they're in college, all these things. Hey, guess what? Mommy's a person and I cater to you all day long, so I'm going to take 45 minutes to exercise.

And if you need something, then you're going to have to wait, right? I do that with my son where he's like, mommy, can you come play toys? And I'm like, I love you. We'll play toys with you for the rest of the day, but right now I'm exercising that's right So I love that you pointed that out.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, we have to advocate for ourselves first Really? Otherwise, how can we have any bandwidth to? Advocate for our kiddos. It just is so true Exactly. You can't pour from an empty cup 0% 0% I love that.

Well, I have just a couple more questions for you I Would love to know What resources you would suggest because I know you're a life coach and you have clients and you've worked with families What are some resources that you can offer our mamas who are listening if they don't have the ability to work with?

a professional therapist or a specific pediatrician or even somebody like you who is a life coach and can work with families if they don't have That bandwidth or the financial ability to do that What are some resources that they can turn to to help them navigate parenting their children on the spectrum?

Yeah. It might differ depending on where folks are and what their needs are, what their unmet needs are. But I will share with Mama specifically, there's a delicious and beautiful organization called We Are Brave Together.

My dear friend, Jessica Petay, is the founder, executive director. She has three children, one of whom has Prader -Willi syndrome. And so she wanted to create this community of like sisterhood and mothers.

And so We Are Brave Together is now international. There are free connection circles throughout, again, throughout the world. There are about 2 ,600, 2 ,700 moms. There's a Facebook group. It's a very supportive, loving, beautiful community that really feels like this sisterhood that is so important on this journey of not wanting to feel isolated or alone.

And so I will say We Are Brave Together has been a lifeline for me. I wish that it had been around when Arizona was younger. I so would have needed it. I was a connection circle leader for We Are Brave Together for a number of years.

A lot of the connection circles support groups are on Zoom. And again, these are free resources for moms. And I have also published a book that is part memoir but also part guidebook in terms of like putting together some kind of roadmap, some kind of blueprint for other moms who have either just received a diagnosis for their child, might be wondering, or now their child is stepping into teenhood and hormones are taking over or transitioning to adulthood, whatever may be.

And that book is called Your True Self is Enough, Lessons Learned on My Journey, Parenting a Child with Autism. So I have, again, anecdotal sort of memoir of my life raising Arizona. And then at the end of each chapter, I have a truth corner sort of where I list out sort of tips and hints for what I know now that I so wished that I had known back then.

So it's almost sort of like a letter to my younger self of like, you know, I was so, again, I was like so in the dark, I had no idea what was going on. And I just wished that I had this for myself. And I also offer, you know, I offer resources on my website as well.

I have, you know, some free handouts that, you know, really talk about my seven top tips for self -care as a special needs parent. And I am always available to answer a few questions whenever anyone has.

you know, you can reach me on my website and I'm always so happy to like refer out if it's not something that I can be supportive with. I'm so glad to hear that there are so many resources out there.

I know at times it can feel more overwhelming when now you know what's going on, but you don't have the capacity to do something about it. So I'm so grateful that you have those resources. And I really want to read your book.

I don't have any kids on the spectrum that I'm aware of, but I want to read your book because it sounds like, I don't know, it just sounds like such a gift where you can not only say this is the life I've lived, but also here's like some educational stuff that will help you as well.

So you've got the personal experience, you've got the education and the research and stuff and you marry those two together. So that sounds like an incredible resource. I'll make sure to put that in the show notes as well as the support group We Are Brave Together.

Is that a Facebook group that I can link to? How can I link to that? Oh, so it's an overall, it's basically a group of moms who identify as having a child who has some sort of unique need or disability, whether it's medical or cognitive or intellectual or physical or mental health or ADHD, learning differences.

And it's just a community of support for moms. The website is wearebravetogether .org. And from there you can find all of the support groups, connection circles, resources. And there is also a private Facebook group for We Are Brave Together mamas to post their questions or their concerns or their worries or their fund shares of the day or their words of wisdom or motivating.

you know, things to share. It's really like a lovely, uplifting, positive community where there is no, you know, no judgment, no comparing. We're just here to share. I love it. Okay, so I'll make sure to link that in the show notes as well.

If you could go back and tell your younger Susanna one thing, at the beginning of this whole journey, knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself? Wow, oh my, one thing. I think that I would say to myself, I think I would say everything is going to be okay.

Like everything is okay. Everything is going to be okay. It might look and feel so hard and so complicated, but everything that we experienced, You know, all of the situations and circumstances and challenges and ups and downs are actually for our, you know, personal growth and evolution and that joy is always available to us no matter what our situation and circumstance.

And it often feels like that's not the case, but it is absolutely the case. And so everything is going to be okay. You know, enjoy the ride as much as you can. Just enjoy the moments and everything will be okay.

That is so beautiful. I really hope the mom is listening. Really take that to heart because I can tell I get to see you. I get to see you face to face. I have that luxury as the host and I can tell that you really do mean that just by watching you explain that.

So mamas, please take that to heart. She really does mean it. Okay. One last question before we wrap up. This is a question that I ask all of my guests. And that is what is a non -negotiable to you to living a well -nourished life?

Yes. Okay. First of all, I love the word nourish. So I, the way that I like to nourish myself, the non -negotiable for me is like true, the true self -care, like the true sort of soul care. Like what is going to allow me to, you know, meet these unmet needs, you know, have so much compassion for myself, you know, remove the mama guilt and just lean into whatever feels like true soul care for me in any moment.

So that is non -negotiable for me. It can look different every day. So one day it could be like, I am going to, you know, play tennis for an hour. Another day it's, I'm going to not answer the phone call of the girlfriend or family member who I love so dearly and cherish so much.

And I know we'll take at least an hour of my energy for today. I just don't have that energy today. I will over the weekend or whatever it is, saying no to things that just do not serve me. All of this, I would consider in the realm of like, just what does self -care look like for me today?

What does it look like for me in this moment? Non -negotiable, like absolutely not negotiable. And so I have to think, like every morning I wake up and say to myself, like, what does self -care look like for me today?

What does it look like for me within the next hour? What does it look like for me within the next 15 minutes? Like what should I need today to come back to myself? Okay, I am going to steal that. And when I wake up in the morning, I'm going to say what does self -care look like for me today?

Because I tell myself that I'm really good at filling my cup, but if we're being honest, probably not all the time. So I'm going to start saying that, that is so good. Okay. When I wake up in the morning, what does self -care look like for me today?

That is wonderful. Throughout the day, because, you know, we think like, oh my gosh, well, I'm gonna do this exercise class. And that day it might not feel like self -care. It might feel like I'm just checking off, you know, something on my to -do list because I know that that's good for my physical body.

I know, you know, in other days it might be like, I'm gonna, you know, ditch the exercise class and actually go walk on the beach because I live in Los Angeles, you know? So there's that, right? Or, you know, it just, it can be, if you start asking yourself, the answers will come.

Oh, okay, that is perfect. Yes, self -care is the non -negotiable, but how you fulfill that is gonna be different every day. So good. Okay, Susanna, I wish that we could talk forever. You are such an amazing woman and you are filled with so much knowledge.

And I just wish that our conversation could go on forever, but we do have to wrap up. So where can we connect with you? Where can we join your world? Where can we learn more from you? Thank you so much, Brooke.

This has been so amazing. You and Hannah both have been the perfect podcast host for me today. Well, everything is really on my website, which is myfullname .com. And I'm gonna say it, and then I'm gonna spell it, www .susannapeacelovell .com.

And that's spelled www .susannapeacelovell .com. I am also on, there you can find information about my book, about my online course that I offer for parents, which is a self -paced course for special needs parents, and some blog posts and some other information about me.

And I'm also on Instagram at mama piece, M -A -M -A -P -E -A -C -E. So you'll find some information there. But yeah, reach out to me. me, I am very connectable. I'm very like, I love to connect with other families, and especially mamas.

Okay, perfect. Mamas, if you're listening, and you listen to her website, and you're like, I'm not gonna remember that, we're gonna put it all in the show notes. So if you want to connect with Susanna, you can just head to today's show notes and find it there.

Susanna, again, thank you so much for joining us. And mamas, we will see you in the next episode. And that's the end of another episode. I hope you loved today's topic as much as I did. You can find all of today's show notes and details at thewellnourishedmama .com slash podcast, as well as all of my recipes and resources on the blog.

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As always, you're amazing mama Don't forget that. I'll see you in the next episode. Love you.