Sisley, also known as The Acne Nutritionist, is North America's and Australia’s leading acne-focused Registered Holistic Nutritionist. With 10 years of working as a clinical practitioner and a background in functional medicine training, Sisley has helped thousands of women from around the world clear their acne naturally through her guides, social channels and coaching practice.
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Brooke Harmer: Hi, Sisley. Thanks so much for joining us today. We're excited to have you here.
Sisley Killam: I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Brooke Harmer: I personally am very excited for our episode today because I have dealt with skin stuff my whole life. Granted, it's mostly autoimmune. So, that's a little bit different, but our skin is something that we are all very self-conscious of. and then all of a sudden stuff starts happening during pregnancy and postpartum and we're just like, " my gosh, what do we do?" So, we're going to talk to you and we're going to learn about everything that comes to skin. and acne during pregnancy so that we can feel so much more confident and…ready to tackle it. But before we do that, can you just tell us a bit about yourself and how you became so passionate about acne?
Sisley Killam: And I'm so excited to dive into all things acne and pregnancy and postpartum because this is just a topic that is not talked about enough. So, I'm really excited for those of you who are listening. so I have struggled with genetically prone skin. So, I guess kind of similar to you where it's kind of a reoccurring thing throughout your life. so it just means it runs in my family. And a lot of women actually are genetically acne prone, but they don't really know it until something goes wrong in the body. So, basically, when you're genetically acne prone, this just means we have different skin cell turnover rate. So, we're shedding dead skin quicker and it makes us more susceptible to breakouts when there's a deeper rooted issue like an inflammation source.
So for me, I've been dealing with acne since I was about 12 years old for various reasons, So teenage acne or maybe it was like post-pill acne. I've had gut infection related stress related acne. And the most recent one which was one of the more interesting cases for myself was mold related acne. So I had mold toxicity and I see this a lot in my practice now. So, if there's any kind of acne, I've experienced it except for pregnancy acne yet. but I've worked with a lot of women who are pregnant and postpartum. And now it's like my soul's purpose and mission to help all women with acne because there's just not enough conversation around our options around acne. I think looking back now, I understand why I was breaking out in each individual situation, but at the time I was so confused.
I thought, was it the wrong skincare product I was using? was it the food I was eating? Was it right? we get all worked up in our head and there's just not a lot of information out there or there's misinformation out there. And I think for a lot of women, especially when they're pregnant, it's very limiting, right? We can't necessarily go to the dermatologist and, they're not going to put you on antibiotics or tininoan or anything like that, which you typically would get suggested, when you're not pregnant. and it can feel quite limiting and frustrating especially if you feel like something is wrong or deeper rooted issue going on. So yeah I ended up studying holistic nutrition and I have a training in functional medicine as well. So it's my job to help understand the root causes of acne and then understand how we can clear it naturally as well.
Brooke Harmer: …
Brooke Harmer: tell me, I grew up being told that acne was just clogged pores. is that what's going on most of the time.
Sisley Killam: So did I.
Sisley Killam: It's a piece of the puzzle. So, I like to think of acne as this perfect storm usually. So, there's a few pieces to that equation essentially. So, if you think of acne is this perfect recipe, there's going to be different ingredients that go into it. So, having clogged pores is one of those, ingredients in the recipe, but at the source of all breakouts, like every pimple, we have to have a source of inflammation can come from so many different things like autoimmune conditions, right? Or PCOS or stress or a gut infection or whatever it may be, changes in pregnancy, like things like that, So there has to be some kind of driver for this inflammation that then signals to the skin to increase your sebum production, which is oil production on the We need oil. It keeps us like glowing, right?
Sisley Killam: That's why a lot of women they glow during pregnancy because one of the reasons for that is because we have increased oil production from that androgen surge and we just naturally are looking beautiful for the most part. And then from there there are a few other factors that go into this recipe. One of which being are you genetically acne prone, right? do you have that more susceptibility to that skin cell turnover rate? So a lot of women they will have had acne their whole life and then not get acne during pregnancy or there's a lot of women who have never had acne the other way around basically.
Sisley Killam: so that's one of the ingredients in there. And then the third would is something clogging your pores like you just mentioned. Right. So we typically like to look at okay, Is there a makeup product, a skin care product that's contributing to the clogged pore situation of a pimple and that's where we look at the ktogenic rating of a product, which you've probably heard about before. It's a bit of an outdated system, but it is pretty reliable, I've found. it basically rates products on a scale of 0 to five. You can give any ingredient a quick Google what's the ktogenic rating of hoba oil or coconut oil. And a lot of times people who are experiencing acne don't realize that a lot of the products that they're using, it's one puzzle piece to making that situation worse. So, it's clogging the pores. So, zero is the lowest. So, you kind of want to aim for that lower number like 0 to one to three.
Sisley Killam: So that's kind of the perfect storm that happens with acne. We have that inflammation trigger, we have, okay, maybe you're genetically acne prone, you're more susceptible to the breakouts, and then do we have some source of pore clogging, going into that mix there. But it's the driver of inflammation that we really want to stay focused on because switching out your skin care is easy. Being genetically acne prone, I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have acne for the rest of your life…
Sisley Killam: if you understand it on a deeper rooted level. So, this is…
Brooke Harmer: So, is there a way for us to find out…
Brooke Harmer: what is causing the inflammation? do we just play a guessing game? Do we start ordering tests? how do we figure out where this inflammation is coming from?
Sisley Killam: where it can get a bit tricky, Because I think if acne had one root reason why we'd be breaking out, it would be fixed. No one would be struggling with acne, right?
Sisley Killam: And it's a bit different if you're pregnant, if you're postpartum, or if you're not. So, I encourage a lot of women if they're in their trying to conceive phase or before their, pregnancy phase, try and get this stuff sorted about a year out prior to trying to conceive if you can because it's going to make everything so much easier, It'll make your pregnancy easier. It'll make your skin situation easier. But a lot of us don't have that luxury, especially if you're already listening to this podcast episode and you're like, "What do I do? I'm already pregnant. So, I think that it's important to do what you can with the resources you have depending on the phase of life're So, in an ideal world, someone would do a lot of testing before trying to conceive and that would really help the situation. But, if you're kind of deep in it, there's a lot you can do in the meantime. So, obviously when you're pregnant, there's not really any point in getting a Dutch test or your hormones tested for from an acne angle, right?
Sisley Killam: because we already know that your hormones are ging. They're rising. That's going to contribute to the problem. But what happens is you can do much to support your body while it's going through that phase that you don't have to obsessively think about do I need to test for X, Y, and Z? So, for example, I run a test called the GIM map test. I'm sure you're familiar with it. and we run that a lot prior to women trying to conceive because if there's a gut infection at play, we usually want to eradicate it. But if you're already pregnant, then we have to be a bit more strategic and a bit more careful about kind of nourishing the gut and supporting the gut versus like eradicating a pathogen or going on a detox, right?
Sisley Killam: So the approach is very different depending on each women woman but there is so much you can do from a diet lifestyle skincare perspective just to manage depending no matter…
Sisley Killam: what your root cause of your acne is there is a secret sauce recipe that you can do to clear your acne if you can't afford testing at this stage because a lot of people it's really expensive Right.
Brooke Harmer: It is really expensive,…
Brooke Harmer: especially, …
Sisley Killam: Mhm. Yeah.
Brooke Harmer: if you're going to someone like you or I where we're not covered by insurance, but we can do more for you than probably not that dermatologists aren't useful, but the way that they treat acne is different, And in some ways, I would even go so far as to say that if you are currently pregnant or postpartum and breastfeeding and you're really struggling with acne and your options are limited because of the phase of life you're in, I would actually call that a blessing…
Brooke Harmer: because then you can't rely on antibiotics or what do you call them? Topical steroid creams or whatever. Yeah.
Sisley Killam: Or Accutane.
Brooke Harmer: or Accutane because those aren't good for you anyway.
Sisley Killam: Yeah. Exactly.
Brooke Harmer: So, I would even say it's kind of a blessing if you're feeling stuck because the traditional methods don't work. That means we're actually going to do the work to hopefully figure out root cause of what's going on.
Sisley Killam: And I always like to say acne is a signal from the body telling us that something is wrong, It's just a little communication messenger. It's just your body saying, "Hey, help me figure out what's going on. I've had enough." And that's where it can get quite confusing, right? Because you're like, " what am I doing wrong?" Right? And that's where someone like you or I would come in where we'd help kind of look at the bigger picture, connect the dots, and really understand how everything is connected.
Sisley Killam: I love how on this podcast you talk about how different symptoms during pregnancy actually mean something greater,…
Sisley Killam: they're often linked to nutrient deficiencies or toxic burden or whatever it may be. And I think there's just not a lot of information out there around this. And I think women deserve to know that.
Brooke Harmer: Absolutely. So,…
Brooke Harmer: I want to ask you, let's talk about skincare routines…
Brooke Harmer: because I've heard from some people you've got this influencer that has an 11step skincare routine and granted let's say all of her stuff is non-toxic, right? All of her stuff is really clean, but it's 11 steps and you have to do it in this order and…
Sisley Killam: Hey, bye.
Brooke Harmer: it takes her this long to get ready for bed and this long after she showers or whatever. And then on the flip side, I've had people say, "Just switch to beef tallow. You just need one thing." So, is there actually a better way to have a skincare routine?
Brooke Harmer: Do we need less? Does it depend? What are your thoughts? Yep.
Sisley Killam: Yes, there's so much noise out there when it comes to skincare.
Sisley Killam: It can be very overwhelming, especially when you're down the Tik Tok rabbit hole. but yeah, I'd say the first step of course, which actually a lot of women don't know, but when you're pregnant, you actually have to be very cautious of the skincare products you're using. What you're putting on your face matters, too. And I look around at all my friends and a lot of them actually don't even know this, So, it's important to look at there's tons of resources online and information about is my skincare product actually pregnancy safe, Because a lot of acne specific products actually aren't pregnancy safe. So, we want to be extra careful. So, once you have that first step out of the way, of course, are we looking at is it clean, is it non-toxic, is it safe for you and baby?
Sisley Killam: basically we want to focus on nourishing the skin barrier. So, a lot of misinformation is around kind of dehydrating and stripping away the skin's natural barrier. people think or a lot of these skincare brands to kind of strip that barrier, dry out the skin so that you just don't have any room for that oil to thrive, to create a breakout. But really there's just so much nuance with this where it's not that simple, the mo main thing we want to do with skincare is rehydrate the skin barrier. So if you look at a lot of women who have acne, they usually have very dehydrated skin, very red and inflamed skin. Obviously it's very different when you're pregnant and your entire skin like your forehead, your cheeks are clear and glowing and then you just get the hormonal breakouts on the chin.
Sisley Killam: that's a different story, if your skin barrier feels really good, there's no redness and it's just a couple of those deeper cystic breakouts, that's very much an internal thing and skincare is just going to be the cherry on top. But if we have this pattern of dull, dehydrated, red, and yeah, just like it something doesn't look right, that's where we need to go in with that hydration. So, I'm a really big fan of using an acne safe oil cleanser first and…
Brooke Harmer: I'm not familiar with it.
Sisley Killam: then going in with a really gentle gel cleanser. I post a lot about skincare on my Instagram, so you can always find it over there. But one of my favorite products of all time is actually a Manuka honey mask. I'm not sure if you're into these at all. Okay, so this is by far the best product because if you look at it, it actually goes a really long way. So it's the most affordable for the amount that you're getting. It's the most effective and it's most safe. So what Manuka honey does is it's naturally antibacterial.
Sisley Killam: So, it's going to help kind of repopulate and kill off any bad bacteria on the skin without killing the good guys, which is exactly what we want. Just like your gut microbiome, right? We want the good guys, we want to get rid of the bad guys. And a lot of acne is actually a topical issue as well. So, using the Manuka honey mask is not only going to help that balance of bacteria on the skin, but it will also help rehydrate your skin and calm the redness. So, all you need is a really thin layer of Manuka honey on damp skin for 10 to 30 minutes a day. postpartum safe. It's the best hack ever. And just see how your skin likes it. People come back to me and they're like, "This is the best skincare product I've ever used."
Sisley Killam: And it's literally just Manuka honey.
Brooke Harmer: …
Brooke Harmer: yeah, it's not like the Great Value honey bear from Walmart, right? You have to get the Manuka honey, which obviously is more expensive, but it has to be that one, right?
Sisley Killam: And the best one you can get is It's the highest potency. It's also the most expensive, but it is so worth it if it's in your budget. you can always just message me on Instagram and I'll send you the link to that. But Manuka honey is going to be the most potent. Yes, you can do regular raw unpasteurized honey. It's still going to have a lot of those benefits in there,…
Sisley Killam: but the manuka is really the top tier one if you want to go for it. Yeah. Yeah.
Brooke Harmer: Okay, good to know.
Brooke Harmer: How do you feel about beef tallow? Because I've heard a lot of people talk about beef tallow and I have a product that a former podcast guest gave to me. She's an expert in eczema specifically. and this skincare product that she has for kids is primarily beef tallow with essential oils and…
Brooke Harmer: maybe something else in it. how do you feel about beef tallow?
Sisley Killam: Okay, so beef tallow is 50/50 in my opinion…
Sisley Killam: because you never know how people are going to react. So some people it clears their skin and it's amazing and then the other 50% it's like they break out in the craziest cystic acne that they've never had before. So, it really is like you're playing with fire. And I personally have never tried it because I'm too scared. I'm like, it's not worth it. But it's really just a trial and error thing, if your skin's loving it, it's clearing up your acne, go for it. But if you already have clogged pores and cystic acne, I wouldn't think this would be the best option for you.
Sisley Killam: I would just use really simple even a low komtogenic acne safe facial oil or a non-comtogenic moisturizer. I really like the brand Aerna. It's Australian and it's pregnancy safe, super natural,…
Sisley Killam: lightweight, easy, so yeah, I would say Tow it's 5050 for me. I can't get on board with it yet.
Brooke Harmer: Okay, good to know.
Brooke Harmer: So, that has me thinking though. It seems like skin care is more, how do I say this? not the cherry on top, but kind of in the least significant thing that's affecting our skin, Because you can change your skinincare products all you want, like you said, you can have all the non-toxic, you can have the Manuka, honey masks, all that stuff, and let's say you're still struggling with acne.
Brooke Harmer: That makes me think that our skin care is important and…
Sisley Killam: Mhm. Yeah.
Brooke Harmer: it's definitely a piece of the puzzle, but it's not what's necessarily going to move the needle or fix our problem if something is going on. is that correct?
Sisley Killam: And most people are looking for a easy, affordable fix and the first thing they turn to is a skincare product naturally. That's so common, right? So, I don't blame people for kind of going in that direction,…
Sisley Killam: but really acne is something deeper rooted 99% of the time. Yeah.
Brooke Harmer: Okay, so we keep talking about the gut microbiome.
Brooke Harmer: We know that the skin is the largest organ and it's also our last defense of the inside, right? So, if something's going on with our gut and we start to see stuff in our skin, that's telling us that something's going on. So when it comes to our gut health and…
Brooke Harmer: inflammation and maybe foods or something like that, what can we do with our diet to support our skin and help minimize or reduce our acne?
Sisley Killam: As you know,…
Sisley Killam: when we're pregnant, we experience a shift in our microbiome, And for some people, it gets a lot worse and other people, they create this iron gut and they can eat anything and they feel amazing and whatever, But the main kind of, thing that we're looking at when it comes to acne, like I've mentioned many times already, is inflammation. So, we want to look at how can we reduce inflammation in the gut so that we're not harboring this environment for bacteria to then produce more inflammation to then trigger acne, And we're also creating this environment where gentle, light, nourishing detoxification is happening. So, we're actually eliminating excess hormones or toxins that we don't need during pregnancy.
Sisley Killam: So actually a really interesting thing that I love you talk about this all the time is how your cravings as well are signaling different deficiencies and how the importance of protein these are all such gold mine topics. So a big theme especially with acne is listening to your body's cravings. So, when you naturally crave certain things throughout pregnancy, like citrus for example, that's usually your body's cry for vitamin C. We need vitamin C to support our immune function, not only for baby, but also for our skin barrier. So, you'll notice that when you incorporate more of these foods that you're craving in their whole food forms, naturally, that will help support your skin. your body is telling you that for a reason, right?
Sisley Killam: a few other ones include French fries, right? A lot of women really crave those fries. So, that's usually a signal that we have an electrolyte imbalance or that we need more of those complex carbohydrates. a really good hack that I give my pregnant clients at home is to take those really yellow like Yukon Gold organic potatoes or purple potatoes or sweet potatoes even, chop them up, sprinkle them in some olive oil, sea salt, and then tapioca starch, like a tablespoon of tapioca starch. It gives them that crispy potato kind of like French fry vibe. And they just love it. They're like, " my gosh, this is the best thing ever." And it satisfies their cravings.
Sisley Killam: and they're using a really good quality sea salt, so you're getting those minerals, but really just listening to what or understanding what do my cravings mean, pickles, electrolytes, right? we need those electrolytes. And that's the really important p piece to the acne puzzle is like these nutrient deficiencies. How are they playing into the way that your skin handles the inflammation? So, I'd say that's a really big important part of nutrition. there's also some really simple swaps you can do if you're breaking out during pregnancy where again we're kind of limited to what we can do, we don't want to put you on a detox or restriction like you need to be nourishing, eating enough protein, fats, complex carbs. but a few simple swaps are switching to only A2 dairy.
Sisley Killam: So we find that most people who are susceptible to breakout their own dairy, it's a lot to do with the A1 casing in traditional cows dairy. So looking for cow's dairy products that say A2 on the label or doing goat, sheep, dairy, buffalo, those are all A2 dairy and those are acne safe. So that's a really easy swap. And then also looking for those sprouted grain products. So, if you're having toast, maybe opting for the Ezekiel bread, like that sprouted one with the orange package in the freezer. That's a great one that my pregnant clients love. So, really just making these little swaps along the way can really help, increase protein, increase fiber, get those minerals up, it's just this they're easy, right?
Sisley Killam: And then you feel like you're more in control of, knowing that you're doing everything you can quote unquote for your acne during pregnancy.
Brooke Harmer: I love that you're talking about…
Brooke Harmer: what we can add. a lot of times it feels like if we have something like if we have acne or if we have bloating or whatever it is, we have to start ripping stuff out and be like, can't have that." and while we should do that with our skincare, we should toss out all of the toxic skin care. we don't need to do that with our diet, right? So, just like you said, if you feel like you're craving French fries, instead of running to McDonald's, just grab some regular potatoes. They could even be rusted potatoes if that's what you like,…
Brooke Harmer: but just make them at home, right? Potatoes are really high in potassium.
Sisley Killam: This is no wonder we're craving it,…
Brooke Harmer: And while they're so demonized because it's like carbs, which is sad because potatoes are wonderful, they have more potassium than a banana. And so the potassium plus the salt that you're sprinkling on them and the vitamin C that's in the potato, it's basically like an electrolyte drink in food form. It's awesome.
Sisley Killam: "No wonder we're craving French fries.
Brooke Harmer: I know your body is asking for energy. So, I love that you bring that up. and something else I wanted to add is scientists are learning that pregnancy is naturally an inflammatory state by definition. Our immune system has to be heightened but also kind of turned off in a way to make sure that our body doesn't kill the baby…
Sisley Killam: It's nice.
Brooke Harmer: because the baby acts as this foreign invader where normally the body would be like, " we don't like that. It's stealing nutrients. It's stealing our thyroid hormones, all this stuff. We need to get rid of it. Our body doesn't want to do that. So, it changes our immune system to make sure that baby is safe. if we can figure out how to support our immune system through this change by the way that we eat, the way that we sleep, all these things, then the not inevitable,…
Brooke Harmer: but the things like acne that are inflammatory prone hopefully won't come about as much because we're supporting our immune system through this really weird time.
Sisley Killam: Exactly. I love…
Sisley Killam: how you worded that. And I think with acne, too, there's this whole mindset piece where we feel so stuck. And so, especially if you've never struggled with acne before and all of a sudden you're dealing with it and we feel like we're 13 again. And we get really caught up in is everyone staring at my acne? Is everyone looking at me? And I don't want to go leave the house without makeup. You're already exhausted. You're already depleted. there's just so much going on from a mindset perspective. I think it's important that while you're nourishing yourself and looking into all these, tools to support your skin, remind yourself the greater job that you're doing right now. And that's growing a baby. what a beautiful blessing.
Sisley Killam: And it's okay to have acne during your pregnancy.
Sisley Killam: If you're doing everything you can and you feel good and you're doing enough, just give yourself that grace and that reminder that you're here for a greater reason and everything will work out in due time.
Brooke Harmer: Amen. We could just end there.
Brooke Harmer: That's such a wonderful way to sum it all up. And that's a lot easier said than done, right? Because I've struggled with rosacea for I don't know, seven or eight years now. And it always gets worse during pregnancy despite all my best efforts.
Brooke Harmer:
Sisley Killam: Mhm. Yeah.
Brooke Harmer: And there were many days where I was like, I need to go to the store, but I do not want to get ready. I don't want to have to put my face on to go to the store. And I'm like, what? I'm freaking growing a baby. Okay, we're going to take the L on the skin and we're going to take the W with the greater good of growing a baby and… we're just going to roll with it. And I have had some people comment, they're like, " did you get sunburned or are you feeling sick?" Or I have people ask me sometimes. I'm like, "No, sorry. This is just my face without makeup." And you don't get to see it very often. So, It's easier said than done. But yeah.
Brooke Harmer:
Sisley Killam: It is.
Sisley Killam: It's really hard. And that's why that proactive mindset work like meditation or…
Sisley Killam: talking with a friend or using those affirmations is so important because we now understand the way we think is actually how we heal and we can it sounds so woo but it's super effective when you actually put it into practice.
Brooke Harmer: We're here for the woo…
Brooke Harmer: because this is a holistic space.
Sisley Killam: Yes. Yay.
Brooke Harmer: So, that's what we're all about. It's all good. okay. I want to ask you about lifestyle. Is there anything during our day …
Brooke Harmer: how we wake up or sunshine? actually nope. Pause. Put a pin in that. I want to ask you about Is sun going to exacerbate our acne? Is it going to help clear our face? talk to me about the sun.
Sisley Killam: This might be so controversial,…
Sisley Killam: but I am so pro-son for many reasons.
Brooke Harmer: Okay. Yay.
Sisley Killam: So, yeah.
Brooke Harmer: I love you.
Sisley Killam: So obviously we're on a holistic podcast so we're probably already aware of the benefits of sunshine right vitamin D getting that natural light in the morning and the evening amazing for cir amazing for your baby's circadian rhythm amazing for everything but the skin and the sun actually have a very complex relationship where your skin needs sunshine and if you're living above I can't remember the city that it is but I once had a doctor tell me that if you're living above I think I want to say it's like San
Sisley Killam: Francisco like anything north above that. …
Brooke Harmer: It's actually farther south than that.
Brooke Harmer: So, basically, if you live anywhere above LA,…
Sisley Killam: thank you.
Brooke Harmer: Phoenix, I'm in El Paso and I count. So, Phoenix, El Paso, and the Florida panhandle. Anything above that, that's where you're going.
Sisley Killam: Thank That is so low.
Sisley Killam: That is so low…
Brooke Harmer: It is.
Brooke Harmer: There's not a lot of people that live below that line.
Sisley Killam: if you think about it. So there's a very high likelihood that you are vitamin D deficient and that we're not getting enough sunshine. I'm up here in Vancouver, Canada. We're definitely not getting enough sunshine. So my kind of general rule of thumb is if the UV is above three, it is recommended to wear sunscreen when you go outside during those really high UV times. especially if you aren't internally supporting your body. So internal sunscreen is a thing. So what we eat actually protects our skin from the sun.
Sisley Killam: So, antioxidants, green tea, matcha, tomatoes, some of the most amazing antioxidants, polyphenols to help protect our skin against sun damage. So, first off, make sure you're having a healthy diet to protect your skin from the sun. But if you're going into really high UV times in the height of summer or right in the middle of the day and you're going to be outside for more than 10 15 minutes, wear your sunscreen because that actually is important because when you have burnt skin, this does make us more susceptible to dryness, damaged skin barrier and then acne can't thrive. But there are certain things that if we incorporate into our day can be such a healing tool.
Sisley Killam: So things like in the morning or in the evening like watching the sunset, getting your skin that natural light without sunscreen, super important. it's summer right now, right? So we're blessed with beautiful sunshine. If you can just get outside for 10, 15 minutes without any makeup, sunscreen, just let the sun shine on your skin, not only will you feel amazing, but your skin will have a natural glow to it and you will feel the difference. So, I'd say that's a really good place for people to start.
Sisley Killam: I think we've become terrified of the People are dermatologists and influencers and acne coaches are telling people to wear sunscreen inside to protect from blue light, which I get it, but I think that we really need more sun. It's artificial.
Brooke Harmer: It's artificial.
Brooke Harmer: Yes, it's blue light, but it's artificial. So, I don't subscribe to that.
Sisley Killam: So, it's really tough, right?
Sisley Killam: And I have personally noticed that I live between here and Australia and when I'm in Australia, my skin thrives because I'm spending more time outside. So, it's really just comes down to get into nature,…
Sisley Killam: get outside. Sure, wear a hat, but get some sun on your skin.
Brooke Harmer: Okay, I am so here for that.
Brooke Harmer: Also, I am obsessed with the theory of internal sunscreen. You said that and I was like,…
Brooke Harmer: my gosh, a million light bulbs just went off in my head. That is amazing. I love that so much." Also, not me in El Paso with a UV index of 11 and…
Sisley Killam: Yeah,…
Brooke Harmer: it's triple digits outside. yeah.
Sisley Killam: That's a whole other story. be careful when it's these 11.
Brooke Harmer: Yeah, it's crazy over here. So, let's go back to the pin thought that I had earlier. I can't believe I remembered that. Lifestyle habits. So, what are some choices that we're making throughout the day that probably isn't helping our skin during pregnancy and postpartum?
Sisley Killam: I mean I feel like you already cover so many of these, but some foundations that are kind of non-negotiables are sleep. we already know women need more sleep than men, right? So we now understand it's 9 to 10 hours versus 8 hours for men. So you have to make sure that when if it's possible for you, try and get that sleep. But I love how you actually talk a lot about on your social channels about all these other little habits you do throughout the day that even if you are sleepd deprived, they don't make you feel that way and you're still making your body feel safe, So at the premise of acne is almost always nervous system dysregulation. but this can tie back to so many things, So we need to make sure that the body feels safe.
Sisley Killam: So, if you can't get that good quality sleep, it's important to have those moments throughout your day, like deep breathing when you walk into a different room. I get a lot of my clients to take five deep breaths when they get into their car, when they go into the kitchen. change of environment, deep breathing. anything that makes your body feel calm, safe, and supported and just mellowed out is perfect lifestyle tool. obviously hydration is crucial, especially during pregnancy. I think all women should be taking electrolytes during pregnancy and even if you're not pregnant, this is something that is just blows my mind the difference we see when we incorporate electrolytes into people's protocols, It's just amazing. so I'd say hydration is really, really important.
Sisley Killam: And then what is really tough is when you're not pregnant, it's really easy to get in the sauna, do a detox, all these things that we can do to support detoxification, but during pregnancy and postpartum, we want to do the opposite of that, We don't want to put your body in detox state. However, your body is always naturally, going through detox practices. So, it is something we still want to keep note of and support in ways that we can. So during pregnancy, some really great ways to support that are exercise, that's probably the easiest, walking, any kind of exercise. also dry brushing if your doctor approves it can be helpful for lymphatic stimulation. And also massage like pregnancy massage.
Sisley Killam: any of those to help that lymphatic drainage and natural detox support and incorporating lots of foods that are detox supporting as well that aren't going to put you over the edge like arugula is a great example or…
Sisley Killam: cilantro. Those are all great for supporting liver health. that's all going to help as well. Yes.
Brooke Harmer: Hey, you literally said everything that was in my brain.
Brooke Harmer: Ask you about dry brushing. I was going to ask you about liver and liver foods. Beets is another one, right? For your liver.
Sisley Killam: if you can stomach them and cook with them.
Sisley Killam: Yes. One of my favorite things to do is make beet brownies. pureeing doing a beet brownies or with a goat cheese is really good. Yeah. it's a tough one though. Beets are tough.
Brooke Harmer: I've heard of that.
Brooke Harmer: I do beetroot powder. So, I just buy a big bag of the powder and…
Sisley Killam: Smart.
Brooke Harmer: I'll add it to my electrolyte drinks.
Sisley Killam: That's genius right there.
Brooke Harmer:
Brooke Harmer: So, it's a little bit earthy.
Brooke Harmer: It's a little like you can just taste the hint of bitter, the hit of the hint of earthiness, but with the flavor and the salt and whatever it's manageable. So, okay.
Sisley Killam: I love that.
Sisley Killam: I'm going to be adding that into my routine. Genius. So,…
Brooke Harmer: Let's see. Dry brushing. Kate, how do you feel about castor oil packs?
Sisley Killam: honestly, I have always learned or…
Sisley Killam: thought that they're not pregnancy safe. Do you recommend them?
Brooke Harmer: I have just learned about them in the last two weeks.
Brooke Harmer: So, I don't actually know.
Sisley Killam: So, I would say probably no.
Brooke Harmer: I don't know if you can do it during pregnancy, but I know that some I think they drink it. my Mom, if you're listening, read my thoughts. I know that some women swear by castor oil for inducing labor. I don't know…
Sisley Killam: Yeah, I think so.
Brooke Harmer: if they drink it or if it's topical. so I'd like to think that if some practitioners,…
Brooke Harmer: maybe they're not conventional, but some practitioners think it's okay to induce labor. I would like to think that that means it's okay at other points in pregnancy, but I don't know. So, I'm not going to make a recommendation. I don't know.
Sisley Killam: my intuition is saying it's probably not safe…
Sisley Killam: because I'll use it in my clients protocols for different reasons. So, you can put the castor oil pack on your liver to support liver detoxification, or you can kind of put it over the uterus, and what it can do is it actually goes through the skin. It's the only oil that can do that with the heat compress, and it helps to break down any fibroids or cysts or just blockage in there. It helps to break things up. So, I don't know if it would be I've never recommended it in pregnancy, but I'd be so curious to know if it is.
Sisley Killam: But for postpartum, I've heard wraps and casserole wraps can be very helpful for all of that. But obviously something I'd need to look more into. But if you're prior to conception, if you're just maybe in that…
Sisley Killam: if you're trying to conceive right now and you're in that phase where you're confirmed pregnant and it's before your period or whatever, what I mean? that would be the best phase to do it in basically. Yeah. Yeah,…
Brooke Harmer: Okay. I like that,…
Brooke Harmer: too. Mamas, we're not giving medical advice. We were just kind of talking out loud at this point.
Sisley Killam: we're getting curious. Yeah.
Brooke Harmer: Good and then So, how about I'm assuming sweating is also just a great thing to do whether it's through exercise or maybe even taking a hot bath to the point where maybe you're sweating a little bit or just trying to get that detox from sweating. Would you agree?
Sisley Killam: So again, I'm not too versed on the whole bath situation, but with exercise for sure, that's a really easy way to support natural detox pathways, right? we know it's safe and we know it's effective. So I'd say strength training, walking, Pilates, even like going for a hike,…
Sisley Killam: all great methods of supporting detox pathways throughout your pregnancy.
Brooke Harmer: Perfect. Okay.
Brooke Harmer: Do you have any advice for us postpartum?
Brooke Harmer: I know that postpartum is so wildly different from pregnancy and it's not the same as I guess normal default any advice about postpartum before we wrap up?
Sisley Killam: Yeah. Yeah.
Sisley Killam: And like you said, it's like this whole other world, right, where your hormones are up here and then they dip and then with breastfeeding, you're all over the place. And it can be a wild ride for women.
Sisley Killam: So, I'd say if your skin starts to change postpartum, especially in that beginning, don't freak out. there usually is that initial shift. especially when women get pregnancy acne, it's usually like in the first trimester because there's all those shifts happening and your body's like, "Whoa, what's happening?" Right? Same thing with postpartum. So, I'd say follow similar tips to when you are pregnant. It's all about nourishing the body, making sure you're feeling safe, eating enough food. because obviously baby is taking a lot of your nutrients when you are breastfeeding or postpartum. and then you can start to incorporate more herbs and supplements with a practitioner who is working with you to support you depending on your needs.
Sisley Killam: So, this is where postpartum I feel like testing and getting specific with blood work could be very helpful because you're likely depleted,…
Sisley Killam: very depleted, and sometimes people are depleted in some things versus others. So, that's where it can get very helpful if you can get that level of personalization. I would say there you go.
Brooke Harmer: I love that.
Brooke Harmer: What a great way to end. and mamas, if you're like, I don't even know where to start. I don't know how to do that. That's what my postpartum recovery cookbook is for. It's a healing protocol. It's naturally anti-inflammatory until week six where we're doing gluten and dairy and all the things. So, if you need support with that,…
Brooke Harmer: that's what my cookbook is for. Sisley, do you have any resources for us that can help us throughout motherhood with our acne and our skin?
Sisley Killam: Yes. I mean I have my Instagram page…
Sisley Killam: where you can find me at the acne nutritionist and I'm starting to share a lot more about pregnancy acne and fertility and all that because it can be a very complicated world if you are acne prone and you're just getting into this journey. stay tuned there. And I'm planning to launch my pregnancy and postpartum acne protocol in 2026, but we're still quite far away from that. but yeah, that's kind of the resources I have available right now. And if you have any questions, you can always just message me on Instagram.
Brooke Harmer: Stay tuned for that very exciting protocol. I am cheering you on. I know it's a lot to put stuff like that together.
Sisley Killam: Thank you.
Brooke Harmer: So, that's really exciting.
Sisley Killam: Thank you.
Brooke Harmer: We want to ask you one more question before we jump off.
Brooke Harmer: It's a question I ask all my guests. we would love to know what is a non-negotiable to you to living a well-nourished life.
Sisley Killam: I would say a big theme that continues to come up for me is setting healthy boundaries…
Sisley Killam: because you can have all the intentions to do all the wellness things, you can be like, I'm going to meal prep and I want to meditate and I want to sleep and drink my electrolytes, but at the end of the day, if you don't create the time to do them or set the boundaries and prioritize that, then they're not going to get done, we kind of already know what we need to do intuitively or we can find out that information through resources like this, but then when it comes down to doing it, it's all about implementation, right?
Sisley Killam: So for me it's like looking at the start of the week and being like okay where am I plugging these things in and I love that you preach this as well is prioritize that so that you respect yourself first so that the people around you can learn to respect themselves and…
Brooke Harmer: Beautiful. Thank you so much for that.
Sisley Killam: you as well and I think that's a really beautiful theme to follow and something really important to me Thanks for having me,…
Brooke Harmer: That was a great answer. mamas, I will link everything in the show notes so that you can follow Sisley and ask questions about our conversation today. Sisly, thank you so much for joining us. Mamas, we'll see you in the next episode.
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